The Armchair Backstabber

A Tabletop Roleplaying Game blog about intrigue, war and social conflict in RPGs.

Tag: Crunchy Systems

  • My (Rather Long) Review of Mythras

    My (Rather Long) Review of Mythras

    This one is long (you’ve been warned):

    Mythras is an interesting animal to review. On the one hand, it’s obviously derivative of Basic Roleplaying (and it’s first incarnation was called Runequest 6 even, so the DNA is obvious), so a lot of what I said I liked about BRP here holds true for Mythras as well (and indeed, that’s how I ended up running it in the first place). On the other hand, Mythras does some things quite differently than base BRP, and those differences make it interesting to examine.

    So, in this review, I don’t want to rehash the similarities between the games. For example, both use percentile, there’s an extensive skill list, both games lean more “realistic” in terms of, say, low or historical fantasy (my favorite genres so you can see my easy interest), and both handle advancement through Experience Rolls (though a bit differently, as I’ll get into below). I have a pretty long shelf of Mythras stuff, and it’s time I talked about it since the game figures heavily in my consciousness (and the gaming table).

    What is Mythras?

    Again, I don’t want to belabor the point, but Mythras is a direct outcropping of BRP. I’d personally go so far as to say that Mythras is an extensive rewrite and refocus of BRP, except it was made by two people who were not part of Chaosium, and were approaching things from their own needs and wants in a game system. And it incorporated things from other games the writers had been involved with, so, I take it back. Mythras is a game that has its roots in BRP, but the foundation has moved a bit, though still contains many of the strengths of that system, and has added its own to boot.

    The two creators of the company that publishes Mythras, Lawrence Whitaker and Pete Nash of the Design Mechanism, did work on various d100 based games, including the old Runequest II line from Mongoose). They published Runequest 6th back in 2012, based on their design ideas from the Mongoose work they did (and another game published around them by them, called Legend). That game, once Moon Design Publications took control of Chaoisum (the holder of the Runequest IP) was set adrift in a sense, so the Design Mechanism rebrand it as Mythras.

    What is Mythras Focused On?

    This is my opinion, so, I’m sure the authors themselves have said more on this, but for me, Mythras is focused on the historical and fantasy genres. The system has since then been stretched to do a lot of other things (from Science Fiction to Supers) but I still think the main focus is that historical-ness. In fact, many of their supplements (and there’s quite a library of them) are focused on taking a historical setting and adding magic and myth to it. Called the Mythic series, these tomes are usually pretty well researched, and give plenty of hooks and other ideas for any gaming table. I can confidently say, that picking up any of these books will give you enough history and other bits and bobs to easily run a campaign from it.

    With that out of the way, let’s talk about the differences Mythras has from “standard” BRP (or at least, what most versions seem to be). I’ll also mention where Mythras and BRP converge (there’s a lot of this).

    Special Effects

    This is the secret sauce that makes Mythras run, and as far as I’m concerned, one of the main reasons to run it. Basically, Special Effects happen when you make a skill roll in one of the conflict systems (so, combat in the core book, or social conflicts in the Mythras Companion), and you compare your roll to the opposition’s roll, and then see the final level of success. So, for example, if I roll a Critical Success to strike my enemy and they roll a simple Success to block me, then I’ve rolled a higher level of success and earned myself a Special Effect.

    What Special Effects you can choose depend on what conflict system you’re using (so combat Special Effects are not the same as, say, the Special Effects used in the Factions book or the Mass Combat system). What makes them so interesting is that, in combat, they solve an interesting problem, or rather, a problem of doing interesting things?

    What I mean is, in combat for example, let’s say you want to disarm your opponent; you have good narrative reasons to do so, but the two of you are in a fight. In general, for many games, you would declare your intention to disarm. The GM assigns a difficulty to doing so, you roll and hope you didn’t waste your turn if it fails. In other games, you might not be even able to do it unless you have the right Feat/Talent/Technique or whatever, and you’ll probably STILL be penalized for trying.

    Mythras’s Special Effects system changes this. Instead of declaring your intent to disarm and then rolling, you roll first (so you DO declare you want to attack them, anyway) and if your success is more successful than the opponent’s, you can look at the list and if you qualify (some Special Effects have requirements, like having rolled a Critical or even something specific like having attacked with a firearm) then you can choose Disarm. The opponent might get a reaction/resistance roll of some kind (Disarm triggers this, for example) but in general, you get what you choose. For example, if you succeed at your roll and pick Choose Location, you can “aim for the head” and that’s what will happen.

    This means that basically, for most rolls in combat (or any of the conflict systems) something interesting will happen. Because Mythras doesn’t really have Feats/Edges or anything, neither the player, nor GMs need to “build” what I can trick characters (for example, a character that is built around the idea of Stun/Locking people). Those builds can’t happen, and conversely, everyone has access to that sort of thing if they manage to get a level of success against their opponent. It also means the GM doesn’t need to adjudicate how various Talents or what have you interact with each other (a major headache avoided).

    The Special Effect system does one other special thing. In combat at least, you don’t have to fight to the death. There are Special Effects for disarming your opponent, or even getting them to Surrender.

    Of course, after signing it’s praises, Special Effects do have a problem – it’s going to take time for you and your players to learn. There are a LOT of them for combat. The other systems that use them (social conflict, mass combat and faction actions) have shorter lists, but still, things to read and learn, which take time and mental bandwidth.

    Character Creation Focuses on Community

    Remember back in my other article I said I like games that foster community (and BRP does), Mythras does too, but really dives into the idea. Character creation here is a step-by-step process, and each step is tied to some part of your life. For example, when you start picking skills, you first do so based on your background (say, born in a city or in a barbarian tribe), then you allocate skill points again in terms of your profession. Finally, you get some bonus skill points to represent what you’ve bene doing and what you’re good at. Which means you’re already tied more to the communities you are a part of, since we at least try to identify which ones shaped you as a person. At the end, all Mythras books let you roll for life events or some such that will give you extra story hooks and what not for the GM to play with.

    Skills are Arranged and Calculated Differently, Kinda

    So, Mythras is a percentile system just like standard BRP. One interesting difference though is that Mythras splits skills into two categories: Standard and Professional. I think the idea of Standard skills is quite clever – basically, these are skills that absolutely everyone has some skill with, things like speaking their native language, or understanding their native customs (it’s quite a long list, actually). Next to that are Professional skills, which are skills that require some kind of training or expertise to attempt (so, knowing about your own culture’s customs is a Standard skill since you grew up with them, but knowing them about other cultures is something you have to learn, and thus, a Professional skill.

    Also, the way Mythras handles calculating starting skills is interesting, and also has the added bonus of making Characteristics more important (and thus, creating a situation where there are no dump stats). In Mythras, all Standard skills, and any skills you choose as Professional skills, start at a rating usually equal to two of your statistics (so, they might be Strength and Dexterity, Intelligence and Charisma, or even Dexterity times 2 or something like that). I really like this, and wish BRP itself did something like this (there is an optional rule in BRP, adding a Skill Category Bonus based on your skills, which sort of like Mythras’s rule but not really since the bonuses aren’t usually that big (average of 0-3%).

    Experience Rolls are Different

    This is a slight difference but it does bear mentioning. In Mythras, at the end of a session, instead of looking at which skills you used in the session and rolling to see if each skill goes up, you gain a number of Experience Rolls given by the GM (modified slightly by your Charisma – the idea being, if people hate or like you more, you’ll have more interesting experiences, or people willing to nudge you along, I guess?). This is interesting because it means that you don’t only roll to increase skills you used during the session, but you can spend these Experience Rolls to increase any of your skills, or to even buy new skills. You can also use Experience Rolls to buy new spells if you’re a sorcerer or spell-casting priest, for example.

    Hit Locations are the Default Rules

    This is one of the few places I’m not in agreement with Mythras (though to be fair, several BRP games use this too). Hit locations of course refer to the fact that in combat, when rolling to hit and damage, that you’re actually hitting a particular part of the body (which will have it’s own armor rating depending) and you do damage to that part, and not the whole. What’s slightly different than some BRP variants of this is that there’s no “overall” hit points – in some BRP games, if you take, say, three points of damage to your arm, you ALSO take three points of damage to your overall HP. Mythras treats them separately, and you can only die instantly when you get a Wound that pushes you into negative territory, in your Chest, Abdomen or Head (and after failing an Endurance roll to resist). Interestingly, this makes characters a little tougher than in the BRP system I described above, because you COULD get hit in your limbs, which while it’s bad to have a Major Wound there, it won’t lead to quick death (only if, after some minutes, you bleed out).

    So, in a weird way, while I usually don’t like Hit Location systems in games, Mythras gets a pass since the system can lead to a character being quickly knocked out of a fight (by falling unconscious because of limb damage), but not necessarily being killed. In the games I’ve run of it, this means I’ve had players dive into a fight they shouldn’t, get badly hurt, but not killed for it, so they’re a little more likely to be brave and try something dangerous later. A small but noticeable behavior change.

    Cults, Yeah, but Brotherhoods, Mercenary Companies…

    In most of the editions of Runequest, especially those that centered on Glorantha, the original fantasy world of Runequest, characters could be members of a cult, and organization centered around a god/goddess and that allowed you to be part of a certain community of believers, and for people more devoted, to gain magic and other power as you raised your skills and showed even more devotion.

    Mythras took this idea a step further and allows everyone to belong to some sort of organization, not just magic users or priests. The GM or player could create a merchant’s guild, or a wizard’s hall, or whatever, assign it skills members should know at various levels and other benefits as you move through the ranks. I think this is a really great tie back into the community theme I love so well, and it means your character also has something to strive for other than wealth from adventuring or whatever.

    There’s More to Say But…

    As always, there’s a lot more to be said, because Mythras is a bit crunchier than BRP, so there’s lots of smaller, mechanical differences that also add up in making this game unique. Overall, I quite like it, and I really only have quibbles with two things: 1. The default of using Hit Locations (M-Space, a science fiction ruleset for Mythras, gives the option not to use them and have General HP instead, but otherwise, I’d have to refer to BRP for General HP, though since it’s a d100 game, its eminently doable) and 2. A mass combat system that isn’t QUITE what I want. Past that, I love it, and it enjoys rotation at my table every now and then.

    Another advantage for Mythras is that, in the years since it came out, it has a large library of books, with my favorites being the rules supplements (like M-Space for science fiction and Destined for supers) and the Mythic Earth series (books showing a “mythic” versions of our own world, like Rome, Babylon, and a sort of Arthurian England (but more history, less knightly fantasy).

    Let’s not forget the ORC License! This is a license where, within certain limits, anyone can publish material for Mythras. BRP, I should note, is also part of this initiative. So this could be a good choice if you’re looking to publish something and your idea fits BRP or Mythras, for example.

  • Why I Like Crunchy Systems (It Seems)

    Why I Like Crunchy Systems (It Seems)

    Gotta Start at the Beginning

    Okay, this is a long, endless topic in TTRPG gaming circles. I know. I’ve engaged in quite a few of those arguments (on both sides!), and I wanted to touch on it today because it recently became an issue – specifically, I was running Fate Core (my own choice, in fact, I’d lobbied hard for it) coming off a Genesys Shadow of the Beanstalk short campaign. Thought I wanted something more “character focused” because we were doing an historical fiction game, and based on conversations we had in our Genesys game (which is a pretty traditional medium crunch game with special dice, once you get down to it). We did characters quickly (five people, all new to Fate, in about an hour, so pretty good – with all the attendant bad jokes, chatter, and questions about how things worked).

    We did that first session (3 hours). Played fine, players had fun, but for me, the GM, I found it extremely hard to run. Not because I hadn’t run Fate Core before – this was my 6th or 7th campaign using it; I know it backwards and forwards. But it was different this time, and I think now, a total mismatch in a certain, specific way (the crux of this post!). It wasn’t because the rules didn’t work – they were fine, and as said, players grokked them quickly. The game did everything I had wanted it for (to wit, to have players be able to define themselves with Aspects as roleplaying prompts, to codify things like sidekicks and using the Fate Fractal to denote things like their court faction and all right mass combat rules). Should have been a perfect fit. Wasn’t.

    In this case, and the topic of today’s post, I want to explore why that is. My current thesis, if you will, is that the Fate Core game, when rolling dice and adjudicating things, didn’t really give me enough information to say what was or wasn’t happening. The background of the rules also didn’t really “inform” my adjudication, for lack of a better term. I needed details the game couldn’t give me, by design. I mean, I knew that going in (and technically “easiness” it what I’d chosen it for, what my players had even asked for). I believed I could just fill in those details from my head and my research. I was very, very wrong. By the end of the session I was mentally exhausted, and even had a headache. I’d felt this before, after certain sessions, so it got me thinking.

    The issue is crunch. Or in this case, the lack of it. But also certain crunch (not all crunch is the same!). So I’d reframe this as details that need to be made up vs. details the system generates for you. It’s weirdly specific I grant, but I think it really touches on what was bothering me when I ran it. Basically, Fate was incapable of generating or providing certain details which I, as a GM, find useful when talking about things.

    Let me give an example. The Fate Core mass combat rules (via the wonderful System Toolkit) gives you a pretty decent system to run mass combats; following the Fate Fractal, you treat military units like characters: you give them Skills and Aspects, and even a Consequence or two. You know exactly how they work because they work like everything else in a Conflict, with a few extra rules (mostly about what Leaders/PCs can do there). But…

    You know what those rules don’t care about? The size of your force. Do you have 300 heavy cavalry or 1000? For these rules, it doesn’t matter (unless you, the GM, decide it does via, say, the Scale optional rule, and even then, you’ll need to decide how many whatevers mean the next Scale level; you need to make those thresholds. Also, the game doesn’t really say what happens when a unit is injured (i.e. takes a Consequence). Do you lose half the unit? The whole thing if it has a single Consequence? Some percentage?

    (Seriously guys, size matters!)

    While it’s okay to handwave that, at some point, my players at least will ask – how many troops did we lose? How long does it take to recruit and replace them? What’s their combat effectiveness (stats) now? Fate doesn’t touch those things (because it doesn’t want to and isn’t made to), but it made me feel weird. I ALSO wanted those answers, because they were vital to the next step – what should the PCs do? Chase after the other army? Are we strong enough? How hurt do we think they are? Or for my NPCs? I had a game once where my NPCs were accidentally victorious (I’d made their army weaker than the player army but three bad decisions and disastrous rolls later, there it was). Logically, holding to the game setting and verisimilitude, what made sense now? What should the NPC commander do?

    And maybe that’s where more crunchy games win for me. They help me roleplay the NPCs. Yes, there’s much more to keep track of, and often, more to prepare for a session (I was doing some prep for our switch to Burning Wheel actually before writing this post). This takes time. There’s more to adjudicate, and procedures to follow. And yet…for all that, I find it easier to run. Because of the extra crunch, I had enough extra detail to hang my hat on, which helped my thinking.

    I’ll give one more weird example. Had a bog-standard fantasy game I was running in Savage Worlds (specifically because their mass combat rules are pretty good and quite fun). However, game was missing something; players felt it too, and I said let’s switch to GURPS. When I started replanning that game, I kept trying to decide how much troops, “realistically”, the PCs would have; what made sense? I could decide myself (that’s what I’d done for the Savage Worlds game, after all, for the three sessions we played before switching). But on a lark, I used the Realm Management supplement for GURPS to figure out the size of the military forces for the enemies around the PCs, and their own army. This fixed a lot of things in my head once I had some concrete benchmarks to work with. Realistic? Probably not at all. But eminently useful.

    (So what I’m saying is, can you boil all of medieval economics down to like, one number? Please?)

    Now, this isn’t to say all crunch is equal. As I said, I like crunch that helps me describe and adjudicate, that helps me build the world in my head so I can describe it to players. For example, I’m not terribly in love with the crunch in combat of some versions of D&D and Pathfinder – I find fiddling with Feat interactions, and what they do from round to round, exhausting. Whereas GURPS and Burning Wheel (both of which I’ll surely write about at some point on this blog) feed me the sort of detail that gets my brain going. So BW ended up the game I’m running now because it combined my original goal (something character centric) with the detail I needed.

    One last thing before we end. In some circles, a lot of this debate centers around how much work it is to run more crunchy games, and people just being busy as you get older (spouse, kids, more work, more responsibility, etc. etc.). I had a kid (but they now have left the nest, alas), still have the spouse (who still lets me game), and yes, much more responsibility, but, I don’t know, I seem to be handling it. Now, this could simply be a function of knowledge (I know GURPS and BW quite well at this point), but I find that the planning and world building decision-making necessary for both games makes me do work up front, but quite a bit less when actually running, and smaller prep in between. It’s odd, since there IS prep in between, but it feels handleable. When I ran a campaign of Blades in the Dark, I weirdly felt there wasn’t enough homework for me to do! Turns out I enjoy that stuff too, as part of the hobby.

    So anyway, I hope this helps some of you! It took me quite a bit of time to put my finger on why I gravitate towards crunchier games, and almost always end up cutting my lighter games short, and coming back to the heavier stuff. And, I can’t say enough, nothing is wrong with light and medium crunch games; I’ve run plenty of them and had good fun. But for the longer term, it seems I need a bit more crunch to enjoy the game.

    As always, there are more articles that I’ve written, which you can have a look at here: Articles